WEBVTT 1 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:20.000 I want to welcome everybody to, to our literacy and the disciplines 06:12 August webinar with a lovely Ant Janelle Williams. I'm gonna drop in chat in a moment a link to the website where you're able to see more information, you know, other past webinars. 2 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:28.999 There's our recordings, past blogs, our current blog calls, everything that you might wanna look at, definitely not while Janelle is speaking, but. 3 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:00:28.999 --> 00:00:32.461 And it's my pleasure. 4 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:00:32.461 --> 00:00:48.090 To introduce my friend, a colleague, and my co author, Janelle Williams EDS. Janelle is the literacy consultant with Oakland Schools where she supports educators and leaders and strengthening disciplinary literacy instruction. 5 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:00:48.090 --> 00:01:08.090 Drawing on over 18 years of experience as a classroom teacher, I be middle year's program coordinator and instructional coach. She brings both deep expertise and a practical understanding of schools for this work. Janelle also serves as co chair of michigan's disciplinary literacy task force and is the co author of engaging learners with culturally sustaining. 6 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:01:08.090 --> 00:01:20.621 Disciplinary literacy. I am delighted to welcome Janela. She leads us in exploring how we can build greater coherence and sustainable momentum and disciplinary literacy implementation. So I'm gonna pass it over to you. 7 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:01:20.621 --> 00:01:47.400 Thank you so much. What a lovely introduction. It's almost like we know each other well. Well, thank you everybody for being here today. I know that this is a busy time of year and a busy time of day. And I'm really looking forward to just offering some ideas that have been useful in our work, not only in Michigan but. 8 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:01:47.400 --> 00:02:07.400 Across additional states, if I've been lucky enough to be invited in, and really hoping that you feel comfortable weighing in with your own expertise and ideas from, from your lens and your perspective. So we're gonna think a little bit about what it means to recommit to coherence in disciplinary. 9 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:22.740 Literacy implementation. So let's dive in and I want to start with a little bit of a current state scenario. So I I went on a little search for a variety of. 10 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:42.740 You know, articles, things that are coming across various social media outlets, and you can see here headlines such as kids are in a reading recession as test scores scores continue to decline and younger students test scores bounce back after the ped. 11 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:02:42.740 --> 00:03:17.330 Pandemic. Literacy is America done with reading. Every grade counts, America's education system is a mess and its students who are paying the price, you know, we've got a lot of, very emotional language that's being used to talk about the current state of literacy in schools or literacy proficiency with our with our students. So that's kind of where I think across the nation, the current. 12 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:03:17.330 --> 00:03:46.950 Vibe is, and I want us to take that idea, that current social conversation that's taking place around literacy written large, and also take into account some things that we know because often when we're having a public dialogue about literacy, proficiency, nape scores are one of the 1st things that are mentioned in the conversation. And so if we're going to talk about. 13 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:03:46.950 --> 00:04:06.950 Evidence and data and research, then we need to understand what we're talking about. So I I really do enjoy reading the post of dr. Andy Johnson from Minnesota State Universities quite prof prolific on LinkedIn and other social media platforms. And I appreciate. 14 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:04:06.950 --> 00:04:32.180 This lens that he offers about neap proficiency levels. 1st, that they've been arbitrarily defined and you can see some citations there and because of that, the levels should be interpreted with extreme caution like any bit of data, the best thing we can do is ask questions about it and understand it. So. 15 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:52.180 The National Center for Education Statistics gives us three reasons why we should interpret nape data with some caution. 1st, we're setting proficiency levels as human beings based on something that we're aspiring to. So there's not a mathematical. 16 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:04:52.180 --> 00:05:16.789 Purpose to those proficiency levels and they're currently being used on a trial basis. So this is not, in other words established science, right? It's being explored right now. And we need more evidence to see if the proficiency levels that are being used on a trial basis are reasonable, valid, and informative. 17 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:05:16.789 --> 00:05:36.789 So I offered that as something for us to think about when we're using nape scores with some pretty extreme consequences in terms of decisions that are meet being made at state Departments of education. And even in some cases in terms of higher edr. 18 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:05:36.789 --> 00:06:02.569 Programming and and things of that nature. And so we've got a couple snips here. One from, video that I did with a coworker where we were unpacking the quote unquote Mississippi miracle. And the reason we were doing that is because in Michigan decisions are being made in terms of legisla. 19 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:06:02.569 --> 00:06:22.649 Inflation to replicate some of the things that occurred in Mississippi and just apply them in Michigan and and hope for the same results, even though we have different demographics, we have different systems, very different systems in place. 20 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:06:22.649 --> 00:06:40.319 And so, there are some consequences to this discourse of X state did this and increased nape scores for this group of students. Therefore, it should be replicated in a variety of spaces. 21 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:06:40.319 --> 00:07:00.319 You can also see here, the fact that when we're talking about nape score decline, we need to be really careful when we're looking at that mathematically. And then also, knowing that I think we have some folks here from the Carolinas and of course other places. 22 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:20.319 And another implication is, you know, based on this nape score literacy score conversation, requirements being made of a hundred and 60 h mandating elementary school teachers to complete a hundred 60 h of science of reading change. 23 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:36.749 Training, which is a significant amount of time for these educators. And there are some assumptions that if the teachers engage in the professional learning that it will have implications on their practice despite the fact that that's not always the case. So. 24 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:07:36.749 --> 00:07:56.749 We've got a lot of big consequences for this broad discourse, and often what happens is, I promise I won't stay on this slide a long time cause it's a moving gift, but this pendulum swing, right? This discourse that whatever we were doing in the past wasn't working as demonstrated. 25 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:07:56.749 --> 00:08:12.479 By our literacy scores, and so we need to move to the very other end of the spectrum with what we're doing, as opposed to really having a more informed discourse about what's going on, why, and what research tells us we can do about it. 26 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:08:12.479 --> 00:08:31.919 So, I'm gonna just kind of ground some of the conversations that I offer for us tonight in a few ideas. 1st that there is of course need for change until we have equitable literacy outcomes for all students. 27 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:51.919 Regardless of demographics, regardless of geography, regardless of anything, we know we have work to do. So we know we have an opportunity for change, but we know it can't be led by the current public rhetoric and those kind of wild swings back and forth, 4th that really causes to. 28 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:08:51.919 --> 00:09:09.989 Loose lose momentum that we might be having in positive change that's already occurring. So, let's make sure that in our conversations and our decision making that we are disrupting deficit mindsets about adolescents and their literacies. 29 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:09:09.989 --> 00:09:29.989 The current narrative is that the kids can't. The kids can't read, the kids can't X, and it's ignoring many of the very powerful literacies that they do possess. Let's also own that any perceived issues are rooted in the fact that schools were not designed to connect to adolescence. 30 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:09:29.989 --> 00:09:49.989 Lives, literacies and interests. That was not the kind of origin story of public schools, and systems are designed to get the results that they're aiming for and they were not originally designed for adolescents to see themselves in the instruction. 31 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:09:49.989 --> 00:09:55.799 So if we want to move toward that, we know we need to change the system. 32 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:09:55.799 --> 00:10:15.799 Let's also acknowledge that the solution to this conversation is not adding more random acts of reading and writing in every classroom. We've been there and we've done that with reading and writing across the curriculum and reading or writing across the day, you know, with PE teachers, having mandates to do cornell NO. 33 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:31.889 Notes in their courses and of course rebelling against that mandate. So we know that simply just assigning or adding more reading and writing without context and connection to students lives isn't going to get us where we wanna go. 34 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:10:31.889 --> 00:10:51.089 And let's acknowledge that if the system were built to support educators in making these shifts, they would already be doing it, right? For the most part, if they had everything they needed to address literacy issues and in and. 35 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:10:51.089 --> 00:11:10.889 Cause more equitable outcomes, they would be doing it. So we know that this is also a systems conversation, even though much of the current rhetoric and decision making is put on the backs of teacher professional learning as opposed to looking at other elements of the system. 36 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:11:10.889 --> 00:11:30.889 So that's a lot, right out the gate. I I came with lots of really strong thoughts and opinions. I'll pause there for a moment and just see if you'd like to add anything in the chat, maybe something that resonated with you or, a question. 37 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:11:30.889 --> 00:11:42.629 And that some of these ideas are raising for you. Feel free to use the chat and and please feel free to continue using it as we move through today. 38 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:11:42.629 --> 00:11:57.809 And I see typing faces. Give it a moment. 39 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:11:57.809 --> 00:12:25.129 And while you're finishing that thought, I'm gonna keep going. Thanks Liz. So if all those things are true and the question is how do we get there? I don't have a man. 40 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:12:25.129 --> 00:12:46.399 Magic wand, so apologies for that piece, but we do have some really solid research about what moves systems and what moves teacher practice. So let's explore some of that. The 1st thing that we need to understand is that just because we say disciplinary literacy is. 41 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:12:46.399 --> 00:13:06.399 Is, something we're going to be implementing in our system. It's not a linear change. Just because you say it, this isn't, this isn't baseball, right? If you build it, they will come. Unfortunately. We know that this sort of change because it changes teacher identity and student identity, it's not going to be linear. 42 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:26.629 And we also know, as we see up here, from Doug Reeves that any initiative, whether it's disciplinary literacy or anything else, in order for us to really see changes in measurable outcomes for students, we need to get to a place eventually where 90 %. 43 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:50.449 Or more of the teaching faculty are embedding those changes in their regular practice, right? So that's a pretty significant percentage of teachers and we'll talk a little bit tonight about change theory and how various people respond to change. And that's another reason why these efforts are multiple year efforts. 44 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:13:50.449 --> 00:13:57.389 Three to five years at a minimum. 45 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:13:57.389 --> 00:14:17.389 The other thing that I think is, is really a useful frame to apply here is the social discipline window, and you might be familiar with it from restorative practices, but I think it can be applied in a leadership context as well. And so I've adopted using it to have us think about. 46 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:14:17.389 --> 00:14:51.319 About the two axes of support and control in terms of what is or isn't provided for teachers as they're navigating this change. So if we're in a scenario where a leader is providing low support to teachers, but also setting low expectations, that would be in the bottom left section of the quadrant. And that's really that kind of, you know, almost neglectful doing nothing. And that can sound like, you know, we have, we have other things we need to be thinking. 47 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:14:51.319 --> 00:15:21.449 Thinking about, I just need, I just need, you know, teachers to be following their lesson plan. I need kids to be out of the hallway. Often those are scenarios where people are, the system is really stressed, right? But we can also have scenarios where there's high support and low expectations. And we would call that Lasay fair or doing four. That often sounds like, well, you know, my teachers are really overwhelmed. I just don't want to stress them with one more thing. 48 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:15:21.449 --> 00:15:40.709 Those kind of statements and if that's the, you know, if that's the prevailing message that teachers are receiving, of course, instruction is not going to shift. We can also have low support and high expectations that are so high that they are almost unreasonable, you know. 49 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:15:40.709 --> 00:15:57.809 Here's a booklet or here's a book on doing disciplinary literacy. Read it, do it. I'm gonna be looking for it in my classroom walkthroughs and evaluations, right? We know that's not gonna get the results we're looking for. So we really want it to be this doing with, where the leader is. 50 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:15:57.809 --> 00:16:13.079 Giving lots of opportunities for support and setting high expectations, at the same time. And that requires leaders to feel comfortable embracing a mindset of. 51 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:16:13.079 --> 00:16:33.079 Being an instructional leader. And that's a shift for them as well. And that means they need support in their system to make that shift. We also know in addition to high expectations and high support, there are other things that teachers need in order to shift their practice. 52 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:16:33.079 --> 00:16:53.079 Some of you maybe familiar with this model. It's the naster model for complex change, and disciplinary literacy, we would make the case is a very complex change. It affects every part of your educational system. So teachers need all of these things. They need a vision to be set. 53 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:16:53.079 --> 00:17:13.079 That they can see themselves in. They need the skills to shift their practice. When we say incentives, I'm not talking about like, you know, a natcho bar one day. I'm talking about those real benefits that come from shifting their practice, whether it's recognition from their leader and peers. 54 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:44.539 Or, you know, additional certifications that grant them more respect, those things that make them feel like they're being treated as professionals. They need resources. If their curricular materials are not aligned with a shift or disciplinary literacy, and we're asking them to teach using disciplinary literacy, there's a disconnect, right? Then what we're saying to teachers is use these curricular materials but somehow figure out. 55 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:17:44.539 --> 00:18:06.559 About how to use them in a new way. And we need a plan. There has to be an articulated plan for what it's going to look like in year 12345. The plan can change, but teachers especially now need to know what's the ask of me? What is the end goal that I'm working toward? Without any one of those. 56 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:29.029 Things you can see in purple, the anticipated results that can occur. And I also really, really appreciate the diffusion of innovations theory which actually comes out of business technology, not really an educational thing. 57 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:18:29.029 --> 00:18:49.029 But it applies because it has a lot to say about any sort of innovation, any sort of change, and how people typically react to that change. And I bet as you're looking on this bell curve and thinking about innovators, early adopters, early majority, late majority laggards, you might be imagining. 58 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:18:49.029 --> 00:19:22.369 Some educators or leaders that you've worked with and maybe presented a change to them. And they've had kind of a predictable response to that change. And it might be I'm not trying that. No thanks. Or I'm two years from retirement. You want me to do what? And the point in bringing these up is not to people blame, it's to acknowledge that just because you've named an initiative like disciplinary literacy doesn't mean everyone's going to have the same initial response. 59 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:19:22.369 --> 00:19:43.429 And in this diffusion of innovations theory, and in the, in the speaker notes and I believe you will get access to the slide deck, it talks about what people at each stage in the bell curve need in order to feel safe enough to take that leap and. 60 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:19:43.429 --> 00:20:08.779 Embrace that innovation. So these are valid human needs that people have. That means we need to design with them in mind. And so if we're going to be coming to our staff and saying, I want us to be working on disciplinary literacy, this is really going to help us, you know, improve student engagement. It's going to help us improve literacy. You can anticipate. 61 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:28.779 Who might initially embrace it and design for those folks? And then you can also anticipate and plan for those folks that might need something different. They may need to see it in a, in a colleague's classroom or they may need to see actual evidence that it's moving some elements of other teachers. 62 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:56.399 Practice in terms of numbers, whatever it is, you can design with that in mind because you're not going to change their typical human response, and blaming them doesn't solve the issue. We all know that. The other thing that I think we need to anticipate when we're making a big change like this is the fact that if we just embrace our professional development calendar, which. 63 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:20:56.399 --> 00:21:15.209 I don't know about all of you, but in Michigan our districts really struggle. They might have just a few days in their calendar to work with teachers across the board on any sort of initiative. And so it's really, really tricky for them to make these large scale changes. 64 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:21:15.209 --> 00:21:35.209 And we also know that even if it's just a particular teaching strategy, it usually takes a minimum of 20 different instances learning whether it's trying something out and getting feedback and as many as 50 h of instruction practicing coaching before anyone can master any new strategy. 65 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:21:35.209 --> 00:22:00.599 That's a significant amount of time that our professional learning calendars don't currently support. So I'm just kind of looking at the faces I'm seeing here. Are there any states or or places that you support where people have a wealth of professional development opportunities, more time than they know what to do with? 66 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:18.479 If so, I want to move there. If you could just give me that info. I don't I I had a feeling that maybe we were all in a similar boat with this, right? So we're trying to move a complex change without adequate time to do so. That requires us to be. 67 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:22:18.479 --> 00:22:37.199 Crafty, we have to be. There's, there's really NO other solution. And so we have to think differently about the opportunities that we do have in our system, and we'll talk a little bit about some of those possibilities and I bet you have some ideas as well. 68 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:22:37.199 --> 00:22:54.539 So, one of the things that we've developed in Michigan and you're welcome to, take it, use it, throw it in the trash, change it, totally up to you, but. 69 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:22:54.539 --> 00:23:14.539 We wanted to help middle schools and high schools that were trying to reconnect with the idea of teachers being in a professional learning community. We've done a lot with it. We kind of got away with away from it in COVID and we're trying to get back to it. But we wanted to ground it in discipline. 70 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:23:14.539 --> 00:23:40.639 Very literacy itself so that teachers could see step by step how they could set a small collaborative inquiry question goal with their colleagues, engage with research around best practice, try some things in their classrooms, gather some classroom focused artifacts, and come back together and have conversation. Whether that's during more formal professional. 71 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:23:40.639 --> 00:24:00.639 Development activities or informal opportunities that might exist, whether it's staff meetings or if there are is additional pay offered for teachers that engage in this kind of learning, a tool like this allows the teachers to drive their learning in really flexible ways. 72 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:24:00.639 --> 00:24:25.039 That are closest to their actual classroom practice. And so some of the things in addition to thinking about professional learning, we've learned a lot over the years about, how to avoid some false starts in getting moving in this. And one. 73 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:52.559 Is getting really clear on what problem your team is trying to solve by taking up disciplinary literacy. It's great if people develop fear of missing out when they hear the district next door or the county next to them is doing this thing called disciplinary literacy. We know that that can drive human behavior, and they say, wow, they're doing it, we should do it too. 74 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:24:52.559 --> 00:25:07.949 And there's nothing wrong with that, but you have to think about your own system and what is it? What is it that we're trying to get better at? And how do we think disciplinary literacy is going to help us with that? Is it chronic absenteeism? 75 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:25:07.949 --> 00:25:27.949 Right? If we're making our classrooms more engaging, we're likely to have students that are going to want to come to school. Is it motivation and engagement? Is it that there are particular reading issues you've identified and you think that having each educator really attending to. 76 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:25:27.949 --> 00:25:53.609 Leading in their discipline can help that. Whatever it is, getting clear on that is gonna help you articulate that, and it's gonna help teachers pick a right sized goal for themselves to work on. And even if you've already been engaging in implementing disciplinary literacy, coming back to that reason and why you can never over communicate that especially to teachers. 77 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:25:53.609 --> 00:26:13.609 And then having a team, to move this work forward and giving themselves as a team sufficient space to learn about disciplinary literacy and develop a thoughtful plan. We know that this work is urgent, we know that we want to address issues we're seeing in our. 78 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:26:13.609 --> 00:26:33.609 Our systems and we also know you can't create a thoughtful plan if you don't fully understand the thing that you're planning around. So having a leadership team that has representatives, leaders, people from different content areas, people from different roles that can come and be in a learning space together becomes a really. 79 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:26:33.609 --> 00:26:40.589 Powerful model for how you want your teachers to come together and learn together. 80 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:26:40.589 --> 00:27:00.589 And just like we said before, you're going to have some folks that are gonna be at that front end of diffusion of innovation model that are going to become your cohort of the willing. The teachers that are saying yes, I see the value in this learning. It's something I have the capacity to wrap my brain around. I'm in. Help me in. I want to be a part of. 81 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:20.589 This I want to be a part of the team, I want to be a part of a PLC, whatever it is. That's going to build sufficient momentum that some of those other folks that are further into the middle or end of the bell curve are going to start to be able to see evidence of it working as that cohort of the well. 82 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:27:20.589 --> 00:27:42.679 Starts trying things. These are teachers with the interest in the capacity to take up the work, right? Start with those. So I want to pause there again, lots of ideas that I'm kind of throwing around as possibilities. What's resonating with you or what ideas. 83 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:27:42.679 --> 00:28:13.903 You have about teachers or roles, that might be really useful in this idea of developing a leadership team or a cohort of the willing to drive the implementation implementation of disciplinary literacy. Have any thoughts? 84 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:28:17.329 --> 00:28:21.059 I feel like it's cheating when I unmute. 85 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:28:21.059 --> 00:28:46.504 I think, you know, what you're emphasizing and a big piece and an answer to that question is every teacher has useful expertise and insights. They might be in different ways or this piece of the puzzle or that piece of the puzzle, but they all are enacting, implementing and have expertise in different ways. 86 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:28:46.504 --> 00:29:06.299 Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, when we think about the idea of apprenticeship and kids actually doing the work similar to various professions, I think our, our performing arts, our visual arts. Many of those courses are a natural fit. 87 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:33.418 Because the kids aren't sitting around admiring solely what some other musician or artist has done. That's not the only purpose of that course. They're they're also doing visual art and doing performing, right? So for sure. Yeah, feel free to keep adding any ideas into the chat that might pop up. 88 "Kurt Nuss" (1846161664) 00:29:33.418 --> 00:30:01.256 Yeah. Yeah, go ahead Kurt. Janelle as you're talking, I'm rereading culturalized at the moment, and so many of those principles like encouraging all, all of us in a building, including teachers, everybody's a leader of kids and what they can do to model and demonstrate their expertise and that this is important every day. Like a lot of those principles keep jumping jumping out very similar to what you're talking about. 89 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:30:01.256 --> 00:30:03.839 Thanks for that connection. 90 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:22.919 Yeah, we think that there are a lot of assets that already exist within, within systems and sometimes we don't automatically connect them to this idea of disciplinary literacy. So, we have a lot of teachers in Oakland County that have been thinking about. 91 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:30:22.919 --> 00:30:42.919 Building thinking classrooms, that resource and they've been engaging in book studies and professional learning around that, and it's really shifted their math instruction in ways where students are collaborating together, they're making their thinking visible, right? The teacher is less of the sage on the stage. 92 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:30:42.919 --> 00:31:02.919 Age and more of a facilitator of the learning. So if teachers are doing, if math teachers are doing that sort of work, those are really useful seeds that can foster a collective culture of disciplinary literacy. And we've actually seen in lab experiences ELA teachers. 93 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:31:02.919 --> 00:31:25.939 Observe math classrooms and say, I could do something like that in my classroom. I could have kids working in small groups on vertical whiteboards and, you know, engaging in conversation and making their thinking visible. So some of these things can really transcend beyond the original discipline for which they were intended. We think that there's a lot of strength if. 94 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:31:25.939 --> 00:31:45.939 Teachers have been thinking about the next generation science standards and moving to phenomenon based instruction. There's already a lot of strength there that can be leveraged. And of course ELA teachers have a lot to bring to a conversation about literacy, so, but it doesn't just have to be English language arts team. 95 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:31:45.939 --> 00:32:15.119 Teachers. Cause you can think about from the perspective of teachers of other disciplines, if every time there's an initiative that has any connection to literacy, it's solely driven by ELA teachers, then the unintentional message is that anything related to literacy doesn't apply to me, right? So sometimes those decisions that we make, send a message that we're not intending to send, right? 96 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:35.119 And we really, as I said before, teachers beyond the core really have a lot to offer in this space, and I don't know about all of you, but in my context they often feel like they are considered last in improvement efforts or when people are planning professor. 97 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:55.119 Development. They're kind of the add ons, like what do we do with the visual arts teachers and things like that. So giving them a space to share their expertise in ways where it's valued, is incredibly powerful. I still remember providing professional learning for a middle school staff and I had introduced. 98 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:17.129 Disciplinary groups of teachers discussing elements of their practice practice, and the PE teacher was sharing some things that he regularly does to help students with goal setting and reflection. And the other teachers were blown away asking him so many questions about how he did what he did. And he said, I. 99 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:33:17.129 --> 00:33:37.129 I am not lying when I say he had tears in his eyes. He said this is the 1st time anyone has ever asked me about anything I do in my classroom. And I think that that is a really sad thing for someone that had been in a school for a long time. So let's. 100 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:33:37.129 --> 00:34:06.079 Not replicate that. Let's lift that expertise that might be hidden, right? And really find ways to leverage it. I will say that sometimes it is challenging for some ELA educators that I work with in this space to embrace the idea of inquiry and handling handing more choice and voice over to students. And so that can be an area of growth for them while they care. 101 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:30.889 Very some expertise in reading and writing instruction, right? We'd like to offer this. It's, it's a very friendly slide. It's got colored colored bubbles, right? Feels very, you know, unassuming, but this can be a starting point. 102 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:34:30.889 --> 00:34:50.889 If you're having a conversation with people about disciplinary literacy, it can sound very intimidating, but if you start by saying, gosh, when I think about my staff, do I have any areas of strength in terms of kind of writing to learn or informal writing? Do I have a teacher that I know is having kids do step. 103 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:34:50.889 --> 00:35:10.889 Notes and notebooks and things like that. Or, do I have someone that's been working a lot about handing over control to students in terms of the discourse they have with each other? So starting with these entry points, these small entry points which can then lead to a large scale implementation of disciplinary letter. 104 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:35:10.889 --> 00:35:33.139 See can be really useful. So again, I'll offer, what do you think teachers might need to know from the leadership team at the beginning of the year, in in order to really engage with this work? Just from your lens, what might be some things they might need to hear or. 105 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:35:33.139 --> 00:35:53.069 E from that leadership team that we were talking about, yeah, thanks for your comment there, Kurt. Appreciate it. 106 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:35:53.069 --> 00:36:11.279 Yeah, I would imagine if you're just beginning Liz, to say we're dedicating this year to learning and that learning is gonna drive where we go next. 107 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:36:11.279 --> 00:36:30.779 Pretty powerful message for a leadership team to send, right? Making themselves a little bit vulnerable, putting themselves in the place of the learner as well. Yeah, keep the ideas coming in the chat. So we think like what what Liz said. 108 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:36:30.779 --> 00:36:50.779 You know, that adjusting the plan in light of teacher feedback or what you're learning is a way to collectively build that ownership, to co create the plan, and I think teachers would appreciate knowing here are the opportunities for learning. Here are the opportunities you have to. 109 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:36:50.779 --> 00:37:10.079 To collaborate and here's what we're hoping we'll gain by the end of the year, even if it's just some really robust learning experiences. And like I said before, it's ok to change the plan. It doesn't have to be perfect in stone with, you know, amazing logos and all of those sorts of things. It can be a fluid thing. 110 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:30.079 One of the things that can be useful is to regularly get input on teachers perceptions of their own knowledge, skills, and abilities in this. And so in Michigan we were really inspired by the literacy in the discipline survey that Kevin and and. 111 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:50.079 And Rochelle and many other people from the lid group that some of which are on this call created and we took that survey and adapted it to include references to our Michigan document on disciplinary literacy. But we've had a lot of people use those questions to regularly get a sense. 112 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:37:50.079 --> 00:38:10.079 Of how teachers are feeling and and to help them plan next in a really responsive way. So very thankful for the lid team for creating that and sharing it publicly. It's allowed us to move things in Michigan and maybe it might be helpful to you too. So that link will take you to a question bank that you could use to build out using whatever. 113 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:33.620 Survey software you use. And just, just a caveat. Cognitive bias is a real thing and what we often find when we're working with secondary educators is they feel very confident at the beginning when we ask them, you know, how they feel about their knowledge skills, and abilities. Usually vocabulary is a little. 114 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:38:33.620 --> 00:39:01.010 Little shaky, but in many other ways they say they feel really confident and we often hear people say, well, I'm already doing all of that in my classroom. And we say ok and then we engage in some learning and trying things and then we administer the surveys again and strangely enough, the confidence goes down and I think we've all probably experienced where we thought we knew what we knew and then we did some learning and we realized just how much we didn't know and how much money. 115 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:39:01.010 --> 00:39:32.840 Where there was to learn, that's a, that's a natural tendency. And so when we're looking at perception survey results, we just need to know that that maybe the case and that that's normal. That's human nature. So if we know we said 50 h of instruction practice and coaching, 20 practice instances to master a new skill, and I'm gonna guess that disciplinary literacy is not the only improvement initiative that the school is working on, then what we. 116 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:54.360 Really what might be an ambitious but achievable ask of teachers in, you know, a year, right? And there is NO answer key to this, but, maybe here are some sample asks and I'd welcome critique of these. Maybe they don't feel achievable. Maybe they just feel ambitious. 117 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:39:54.360 --> 00:40:11.910 I have been guilty of over ambitious head over ambition at times, so maybe we ask teacher, each teacher to encourage and honor students questions during each unit and collect some artifacts of what that looks like. So how are we starting with students actual? 118 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:40:11.910 --> 00:40:31.910 Curiosities. Maybe we have them create tech sets from a variety of modes and, and perspectives aligned with each inquiry question. Maybe we really work on making student learning public through authentic audiences for each summitive task. 119 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:40:31.910 --> 00:40:56.130 That all of those would require some significant learning but would be possible to iterate on. Try some things and learn and get better the next time. If you have any other ideas, please add them. These are just a few examples. And we really do say it's ok to start slow and small and keep momentum. 120 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:40:56.130 --> 00:41:16.020 It's a good thing. We often, and Kurt, I think you and I have had conversations over the years because we feel the urgency for change. Sometimes we bite off a little bit more than we can chew, and then we learn we've gotta, we've gotta take it a little smaller, right? And that's a natural tendency and that's. 121 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:41:16.020 --> 00:41:31.860 That just represents the urgency of really wanting to improve the student experience, right? It's certainly not stemming from trying to overwhelm teachers. And another thing that I think is. 122 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:50.640 Helpful and sometimes is a missed opportunity for districts and schools is to build that multi year three to five year plan in alignment with what are your strategic planned goals as a district, right? What are those broad goals that you've spent a lot of time and money creating? 123 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:41:50.640 --> 00:42:10.640 What about your building continuous improvement goals and any other initiatives? So building out your plan in response and connection to those things as opposed to it being a separate thing that you're working on, really feels like an opportunity to streamline that we're all swimming in the same direction. 124 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:31.310 And of course we want to make sure that all along the way we're gathering evidence of growth and that does not have to consist of large scale assessment data. In fact, it would be very surprising to see any shifts in large scale proficiency data within the 1st two to three years of. 125 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:42:31.310 --> 00:42:50.100 Implementation. It typically takes longer to get down to that level, but we can collect lots of great data other than that. Perception data, we can collect artifacts from classroom instruction. All of those things are evidence of our growth and they count. 126 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:42:50.100 --> 00:43:07.410 And, before I just kind of wrap and give us a little discussion time, I, as we said before, there's a lot of public rhetoric, around a literacy crisis and. 127 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:43:07.410 --> 00:43:23.100 Many of the folks that are feeding the fuel on that are looking to make money. We'll be honest, right? Vendors make money when there's a problem that people perceive needs to be solved. So. 128 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:43:23.100 --> 00:43:43.100 There are free resources that are available on implementing disciplinary literacy. Lid is great about putting out regular resources all the time from the practitioner level. We try to do the same in Michigan, so I've got a hyperlink to our website where we have a lot of free resources. 129 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:43:43.100 --> 00:44:26.377 We're not making money on any of the materials that we create and we share them openly. And then, ok, so this is a shameless plug. Rochelle mentioned, we did write a book, and we're pretty excited about it. So if if you're interested in reading a little bit more about our perspective, you're welcome to grab a copy of the book and Harvard has a promo code for 20 % off, so a little bit of a savings there as well. So I think those were the big things I wanted to offer. I know I talked a lot and really fast and for a long time, but Rochelle, I'm wondering how we might wanna process in the last little bit that we have. 130 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:44:26.377 --> 00:44:46.097 I think it's a great time to open it up for Q and A You did a lovely job talking about all these different kind of pieces. You had those stopping points and so maybe there are some questions that have bubbled up or some affirmations, the things that you were sharing or questions, though. Great. You can just unmute if you would like. 131 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:44:46.097 --> 00:45:01.679 Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be a question. It could just be kind of a thought that you want to put out there and, and have us engage with. 132 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:22.762 I feel like I've been doing this with the grant. We should all have either a one sentence summary that you can either unmute or put in chat or one word that like is just really calling to you from learning in this presentation means everybody gets engaged. Hello loves that? 133 "Kurt Nuss" (1846161664) 00:45:30.984 --> 00:45:53.540 I'll offer, our experience in Oxford as we went down the road, we kind of stalled because teachers still didn't know what it actually looked like, right? So what does it look like in my classroom? So Janelle and her team provided some lessons and those were very helpful. We used those and copied those, and then we started. 134 "Kurt Nuss" (1846161664) 00:45:53.540 --> 00:46:16.950 Highlighting teachers who were, hey, they tried something, whether it was great or not, we just had them do a snippet at the beginning of every, every Wednesday morning we have PD for a little bit, a 05:10 minute snippet as they walked through what they did and people could see, ok, what elements did you use? What did you try to do, wasn't intentional? Cause there's a. 135 "Kurt Nuss" (1846161664) 00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:36.950 There was a tendency to oh yeah we we included vocabulary, so we did the principle and on like NO was that the intention, like what did you do to intentionally? But ok, what did they actually hit? So we had a great conversation and we like finally started to celebrate successes but also, ok. 136 "Kurt Nuss" (1846161664) 00:46:36.950 --> 00:46:55.222 What were some of the lessons learned? What is it and what is it really not? But it really gave teachers a concrete view of, ok, this is what I could try and that's how I could adjust it. And we tried to everyone, we tried to do a different subject area, so they could see it in all different classrooms. So that really helped move a little bit. 137 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:46:55.222 --> 00:47:14.870 I appreciate that Kurt, because what you're really lifting is there's a difference between having students use their literacy and intentionally making space in your instruction for that to happen, right? Like it's, it's a plan. 138 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:47:14.870 --> 00:47:33.210 And it's not just you assigning students to do their literacy, it's you intentionally planning how to help them grow and move in their use of literacy in the discipline. And that is, that takes some sense making, right? 139 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:47:33.210 --> 00:47:45.215 Yeah Jennifer says drawing on what a teacher can do as a starting point. Yes. 140 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:47:45.215 --> 00:47:49.198 And I think teachers feel a little bit beaten down. 141 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:47:49.198 --> 00:47:53.255 Right now so naming what they can do is great. 142 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:47:53.255 --> 00:48:12.240 Within in Australia we're having a whole lot of new policies and strategies through a program called the Strong Beginnings and teachers are being very and pre service teachers are being very explicitly told this is what you must do. 143 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:29.730 To the point that teachers and pre and teacher educators work is now being checked and our materials will be checked by AI to make sure that we are using the right number types of words like science of reading a particular number of times in our lectures. 144 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:48:29.730 --> 00:48:49.730 It's not quite what one would have expected from Australia. So it it's so, so it's quite controversial at the moment and teachers aren't are are stepping back and going well what am I doing and why is this happening to me? So I think the notion of starting with what teachers can already do is is a really powerful. 145 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:48:49.730 --> 00:48:53.578 Message that might through a bit of that. 146 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:48:53.578 --> 00:48:58.860 Yeah, that sounds really, really challenging. 147 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:02.098 Yeah. 148 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:49:02.098 --> 00:49:09.939 So you're experiencing the perpetulum shift, right? That extreme shift. 149 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:49:09.939 --> 00:49:29.900 I think we are experiencing the pendulum shift, but I think what we're also experiencing is the involvement of politicians into education in a way that Australia has not before. So we are, this is very much the agenda of the national minister for. 150 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:49.230 Education and we're all a little bit shell shocked into what happened to our Australia. How did we get here? So that and so that will be it, that'll be a pendulum shift because it inevitably won't work. So then what because it won't because teachers are already saying teacher educators. 151 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:49:49.230 --> 00:50:04.819 What's going on? Why don't you trust me? So that's the, that's the psychological emotional impact of what is why don't you trust me. So then there will be another pendulum as well. And I think that is a big part of the problem is it's just one extreme to another. 152 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:50:04.819 --> 00:50:25.460 I think you would really enjoy I had mentioned on one of the slides I had included from Andy Johnson, from Minnesotas State University. He's got a book coming out. He has a few books, and he has some. 153 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:50:25.460 --> 00:50:55.340 Some really interesting research base takes on this whole science of reading movement and political movement and he's got, you know, a sub stack and things like that. So, it's been helpful to me in growing my more nuanced understanding of the, the rhetoric and and the decisions that are being made. It certainly won't solve anything for you, but you might feel seen by reading some of his thanks. 154 "Jennifer Shand" (772878336) 00:50:55.340 --> 00:51:05.737 Thank you. 155 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:51:05.737 --> 00:51:07.559 Is there anybody. 156 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:11.496 Yeah entry points start small, yeah. 157 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:51:11.496 --> 00:51:16.980 I know we have a call in user. I think it is Maggie because I got an email. 158 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:34.218 About we can't hear her and so if that is you as the calling user, you are welcome to try to unmute or I can even maybe unmute you or I can request it. That was fine. 159 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:51:34.218 --> 00:51:55.620 Yeah, and, and while you're working on that, Donna I appreciate you naming that, that losing enthusiasm or energy, and that's actually a very normal part of implementation. It's, it even has a name, the implementation dip, and by knowing that that's something that often happens. 160 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:51:55.620 --> 00:52:15.620 And then planning, designing around it. We can, we can help mitigate some of the effects and, and be able to bounce back a little more effectively. And often back to that master model, if something is missing, that can be a key reason or it can really exacerbate that. 161 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:52:15.620 --> 00:52:30.604 Implementation dip. So going back to that and asking the question, are we experiencing a dip because one of these things is not in place, then let's design a solution to that can, can be helpful. 162 "Kavin Ming" (2599977984) 00:52:30.604 --> 00:52:49.560 You know, I continue to be amazed when I work with my graduate level pre service teachers and how important this topic continues to be just this summer I have especially my subject area people, you know, the biologies and the social studies, they have NO clue. 163 "Kavin Ming" (2599977984) 00:52:49.560 --> 00:53:05.130 About disciplinary literacy and its integration and the importance of using it to teach in their content areas, so as you were talking I thought man, this is something that we have to really emphasize at the pre service teacher level. 164 "Kavin Ming" (2599977984) 00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:22.865 Because there is still such a lack of knowledge in terms of just how essential it is to ensure that students know how to effectively teach their content. So I just I'm always amazed that there's a long way there's much work that still needs to be done. 165 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:53:22.865 --> 00:53:40.430 Yeah, and it's tricky because there's so much we want our pre service teachers to know. It's hard to fit it all in. In Michigan several years ago, we, we had what was a required reading course, a three credit course for any secondary. 166 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:53:40.430 --> 00:54:08.297 Certified educators and our department felt like it was important to turn that into a disciplinary literacy course and for that we're really thankful, and glad we were able to collaborate with them in, in developing the standards for that course and the resources for that course. And so we're thankful for that. But again, it's a three credit course and that's a lot to learn and three credits, right? So it's a baby step in the right direction. 167 "Kavin Ming" (2599977984) 00:54:08.297 --> 00:54:34.183 Absolutely and and and I actually get some pushback for from some of my students who are like, does this really matter? So it's not even just a lack of knowing some are not open to, you know, this integration which scares me and sadness me, so I just, you know, I'm appreciative of the information that you shared. I can take that, you know, some of that back to my students. 168 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:54:34.183 --> 00:54:53.690 And I'm I'm always happy to chat about, how I approach it in the grad class that I teach, and I collaborate with an under an undergrad professor of the same course. Happy to talk about some of the ways that we start out the course to kind of. 169 "Jenelle Williams" (770963456) 00:54:53.690 --> 00:55:06.898 Engage some ownership of the content right from the very beginning. Not that it's perfect, but, but I'm happy to share, so feel free to reach out after today if you wanna chat. 170 "Kavin Ming" (2599977984) 00:55:06.898 --> 00:55:09.456 Awesome, thanks. 171 "Savitz, Rachelle S" (405254144) 00:55:09.456 --> 00:55:15.808 Alright, we are at 07:00, so I'm gonna stop recording.